interested in a married, yet "lonely", woman

[kayjay]

Sorry for this lengthy post. I tend to ramble in full detail. Anyway:

Have gradually met and become acquainted with this woman over the past year, as our daughters are in the same weekly ice skating lessons, and our boys play together running up and down the bleachers while the parents watch the skating. Over the past couple of months, I have slowly tried to build our acquaintance level, engaging her in brief conversation at the weekly skating lessons. We've talked about the boys (1 year apart), the girls (2 years apart), house buying, the kids' XMAS wishlists and what they wound up getting, a bit about our jobs, our homes, our pools. Mostly small talk that you'd expect between parents who really don't know each other, but just having casual conversation. However, she has also elaborated on a bit more personal information in some of our conversations, about how her husband works nights, and she works until 2pm and then shuffles the kids to their activities, and 2 weeks ago, while talking about the kids and their XMAS gifts, she mentioned that her daughter has a different father who is totally out of the picture. We chatted for most of the 40 minute lesson that night. So, anyway, that is a summary of the history of our acquaintance. NOW, I have really taken a liking to this woman over the past 2-3 months. Thru the power of the web, I found out her name, age, address and phone number, employer, and social networking sites. She has a peekyou.com account with a couple of photos, and she has a myspace account that is set to private. But what has really got my emotions and conscience going berzerk is her myspace profile page pic and her current mood state. It is a beautiful pic of her in her wedding dress, and the mood has been stuck on "lonely" for the past month since I found her myspace page. So, my emotions have me thinking that she may be in another unhappy relationship.

NOW, I have decided to try to advance our acquaintance as cautiously as I can without stepping over boundaries and ruining what we have right now. After our pleasant and somewhat detailed conversation two weeks ago, I emailed her a short and unimposing message, just mentioning how I learned that her name is such and such, and how I didn't believe that we ever formally exchanged greetings during skating lessons, but that now I could put a name to a face. That was it. Of course, I was hoping that she would reply and start up a conversation. Well, she did not reply to that email. And last week, she was not at the skating lessons, likely due ot a big snow storm we had that day. Anyway, well, she was there tonight, though. Again, I didn't want to come on too strong and obvious, so I picked an opportunity when our playing boys brought us together, and I greeted her, and I proceeded to tell her how I came across her name, which was the result of an email to all the parents of the skaters, and I recognized her last name and place of business in her email address, and a google search on the oddly named company presented me with a business review on her company, and she was in a picture along with some other office staff. And she mentioned then that she got my email, and she wasn't 100% certain, but she thought it was from me. ANd we talked a bit more about her job responsibilities.

My boy inconveniently took me away from the conversation, as he had to go to the bathroom. I got back to her with just a couple minutes left of the skating lessons. She asked me how old my son is again, and I briefly discussed our recent potty training success. Then, we were together again in the skating rink arcade after the lessons, as the kids got popcorn from the snack bar and, we both put quarters into the air hockey game for the boys. I finally wrapped up my kids and said "see ya next week". Now I have to wait another 7 days before I'll see her again. I will again monitor her myspace logins and watch to see if her mood status remains on lonely. She checks her myspace a couple of times per week. BUT I will not look to contact her (friendship request) on myspace because I think that will clearly demostrate my affection for her, and knowing that she is still in a marriage, and I really have no certainty regarding her marital relationship, if it is not going so well or what. I only have her myspace "lonely" mood status to go by, along with some of the bit more personal things that she has shared in conversations (a few of which I've mentioned here). I also most likely will not contact her via email again, as I don't want to be perceived as stepping across her boundaries and possibly turning off our budding acquaintance. I think my only sensible gameplan for now is to just maintain our friendly conversations at skating lessons and see where I can carefully steer the conversations without coming across as intrusive or boldly showing my strong affection for her.

If I gain the insight that her marriage is okay, then I certainly wouldn't look to advance our relationship any more than what it is now. If I can manage to advance our friendship a bit more to email exchanges or myspace/facebook exchanges, then I could potentially call her out on her "lonely" mood status, and see what that reveals.

I guess what I am looking for is some advice on how to advance our conversations and friendship level, with a certain level of respect for her and her life. What topics should I carry on with, and how can I carefully steer them in the direction that I want to go, to the point where I'm going to possibly gain the insight that will tell me to continue my desire to advance her or to back off. I've researched flirting techniques, but I obviously want to be as subtle as I can.

Any advice? Thank you very much.

[**Sapphire**]

Welcome to ATLF, glad that you joined us here.

Well honestly no matter if she is in a bad situation with her marriage or she's happy, but possibly a little lonely she is married & that is to be respected by you. If her marriage is in a bad state, then she needs to do what she can to either fix it or break it off, not have someone possibly going after her to jumble things up a whole lot more.

I would say just continue to talk to her as you are now, see if she opens up to you more. Maybe be her friend, she may need 1 right now, who knows.

[kayjay]

Thank you for the response, Sapphire!

Agreed on your response. I don't want to cause problems right now and risk killing what we have right now. So I will continue to engage her in the friendly manner which I have so far. There are a number of topics that I can strike up conversation with, based on our past conversations, revisits to those, like her home-buying quest that she was telling me about, and the extra-curricular activites that our kids participate in, and general parenting with each of us having a girl and boy of nearly the same age level. I will seek to carry on with this and see how she reciprocates, as you say, to see if she opens up some more.

Thanks again.

[aussiecoffee007]

i agree, i think you should stay friends with her.. but even there, be careful... shes a married woman and starting an emotional affair can be just as painful. i hope you guys can just stay acquaintancse, and if and when something happens with her marriage, perhaps then can you take a more serious route to dating her and such. but as for now, she seems like she wants someone to want her again, but i dont think she is really what you need, especially because she is married. again i wouldnt flirt with her or anything until her marriage is over or in the process... i just really wouldnt go there, because where would hte relationship go from there? plus if you two did have something and it didnt work out, as they most often dont, it could get really ugly/awkward and you dont want to put your kids in any kind of situation like that.

[kayjay]

yeah, okay, i will just keep it on the level for now. We'll continue to talk, of course, but I'll just play it straight, let our conversations go wherever they go, and leave it to her as to whether she wants to take me into a closer level of comfort and confidence.

Thanks again.

[kayjay]

By the way, Sapphire and AussieCoffee, I really appreciate your candid responses. I took a real lashing on another forum. I'm not a creep, as they said. I'm just caught up in a crush with this woman, who seems to be experiencing a very similar life crisis as myself, and I'm having a real tough time dealing with it. I'm not looking to steal her away from her marriage, but at the same time, I see the crack in her glass, and my emotions aren't letting me ignore it.

OK, things are getting even more complicated. I'm betting that my premonition is on target regarding her marital situation. I'm not certain still, but it sure is looking like she's having marital difficulties. She checked in on her myspace page sometime this morning, and her mood status has changed since yesterday, from lonely to frustrated, and her billboard message (if that's what you call it) now says that she is (to paraphrase her quote) just fed up; had enough. Triple exclamation point!!!

AAAARRRRGH!!! Emotional overdrive right now!! I just can't stop thinking about it. I feel so bad for her, and I wish I could be there for her, and I know that I can't do squat about it.

Well, tomorrow is skating lessons. I will hopefully see her at the rink. Our girls will skate, our boys will play, and hopefully, we will again engage in normal "hi, what's up" conversation. I fully realize that I will have to be very careful with the situation. Although I really don't know her all that well, I feel like I have a high degree of respect for her, so I need to keep my crush under wraps. As one respondent replied back to me, she just may need a friend right now. And, although in my rash and wildest dreams, I'd love to be with this woman long term, right now, short term, I just want to be her friend, on whatever level. If she were to never take her daughter to skating lessons again, then I could theoretically never see her again, unless I reached out to her out of the blue. And I couldn't do something like that without knowing how her marriage situation played out. And yet I realize that I cannot impose my friendship on her either. So, I guess I will just try to maintain the friendly conversation, be careful not to step over her boundaries, and hope that she becomes comfortable with me to whatever level that permits us to be friends in contact. She just had a birthday, and Valentine's Day is this weekend. My heart goes out to her, and yet I can't let her know. Crud........

[lisa843]

ummmm...I'm not sure what you are looking for....
but I will say this...it is not good to start a "romantic" relationship with someone that is STILL married. That brings so much baggage into the situation. And even if she IS having problems and did leave her husband...if she got with anyone else too soon....that would be a "re-bound"

(IMO) I think you should just try to remain friendly, but don't try anything else...for the sake of both of you.

If later on she becomes "free", then maybe she will want to be more??

If I were you, I'd try to find someone else. Focus on other things, people.

Good luck with all that, take care

[**Sapphire**]

I agree with Lisa, you really do need to just be friends with her.

How do you for sure know that her mood & message on Myspace was in regards to her husband & any potential problems they may be having? She may be frustrated at work, maybe things with the children. There are so many other factors that could have lead her to change her mood & make that post other than her marriage & any problems they may be experiencing.

I think you do need to focus your attention on other people, go out with friends talk to other people, try your best to get her off your mind.

[kayjay]

Sapphire, you're correct. I don't know for certain what her mood status and billboard expression are based on. And I'm certainly not a psychologist; no accredited skill in analyzing one's thoughts or behaviors. I'm just basing my assumption of a souring marriage on what I've observed of this woman at the rink from a distance and what I've learned through our face to face conversations. Her daughter with the father who is out of the picture apparently splits living time between her and her current husband and son AND with what I believe to be the out of picture dad's family. There is an older woman that also regularly comes to the skating lessons with her, and I believe it is the daughter's grandmother. I don't know if the daughter's dad was the first husband or born out of wedlock. I'm not trying to go off on a tangent here with the daughter's life, but just trying to show you what I've observed over the past year, which is shaping my assumption. I took strong notice on regular occasions whereby this woman and the grandmother didn't/don't engage in much conversation while at the skating rink. Also, one the few occasions where the woman and her son were NOT at the skating lessons, the daughter and the grandmother were. So that's why I believe the older woman may be the mom of the daughter's dad, who is out of the picture altogether. The woman noticeably keeps to herself, and I am the only other person who has engaged her in conversation at the rink during this year plus period. She doesn't chat with family or friends on the cell phone while at the rink. She just watches her daughter skate, and we both keep eyes on the boys as they play with toys and run up and down the rink seating area. When we were talking about XMAS gifts for the kids last month, the same conversation when she mentioned her daughter's out of the picture dad, she also mentioned about how the grandmother (or the gandmother's family) spoiled her daughter with presents that weren't all that appropriate for an 8 year old, like an activated cell phone (a much nicer one thatn she has....HAHA) and a laptop PC of her own, and she mentioned to me that when her daughter comes to stay at her house with her son and husband, that she doesn't want her daughter coming over with those presents. So, I gauged that she has a good set of values. which only served to raise my impressions of her as a mother and a person. Okay, I guess that's enough for now. Thank you.

[aussiecoffee007]

you know, your story reminds me of a story called "interpreter of maladies" from jhumpa lahiri's interpreter of maladies and i think you should read it...

did you ask her anything about what her status was about? i agree that it was probably about her husband with the status, but as sapphire said you can never be sure... there are a lot of things that go on in life, especially at the same time.

i wouldnt rush into things... i would just be her friend right now... shes still married and you still dont know for sure where that is going to lead to.

[kayjay]

Aussie, ask her about her mood and status? NO WAY!! I sent her that one introductory email when I found out her first name via the google search of her company, and that's it. I can't let her know that I found her on myspace. Then, she's going to wonder why I'm searching for her online, and it won't be so much as wonder as it will be fact. "Hmm, first, he looked me up thru my work and emailed me to say hi, and now he's looking me up on myspace." Unless we begin to establish a basic level of friendship at the skating rink, maybe through more open and revealing conversations, or outside of the skating rink, like say taking our kids to the playground together, then I'd feel extremely uncomfortable about asking her about a myspace account. I'll settle for hoping to become her friend for now.

[aussiecoffee007]

ohh i didnt know you guys like werent friends or whatever on myspace. i hope you guys do establish a level so that you can be friends and feel comfortable asking her about how she feels and stuff... but i wouldnt push the emotional closeness too much yet because she is still married and that could lead down a dangerous path...

[kayjay]

Well, we saw each other at the skating lessons again tonight.

First off, I just want to say that I'm rehashing the events of the evening here because it makes me feel a lot better to get my thoughts and feelings out and talk about it.

A few things of note to point out. Her boy sought out my boy as soon as we began walking down the walkway of the bleachers, and they were off and playing. First thing I noticed was the woman was at our usual far end of the bleachers where our girls skate. Second thing, only half way down and sitting up a couple rows was the daughter's grandmother (as I've assumed). By herself and far away from the woman. And what I overheard later after the lessons ended really confirmed to me that she must be the daughter's grandmother. Third thing, as I walked closer towards the woman (mind you, the boys are playing down where she's standing, and our girls skate at that end of the ice, so of course I'm going down there), well, I noticed a guy standing next to her. I am pretty confident that he is the husband. So I knew right away that I'd just have to keep to myself tonight.

I stopped about 15-20 feet away from them to keep my distance, but still be able to keep tab on my son playing with hers. So, I am assuming that the guy is her husband and father of her son. Well, our boys were getting a little too close to the group of 8-10 year old boys playing ministick hockey at the end of the bleachers. She went over to check on them, and I did, as well. I just asked her if our boys got a little mixed in with the older boys, and she acknwledged, and we retreated our boys. I stayed there to prevent our boys from straying over again, and she walked back next to her husband. Again, I'm like 15-20 feet away. I did notice her sort of giving him some instructions or directions, and next thing you know, he’s walking back toward the rink lobby. He wasn’t seen again until the skating lessons were over. I still kept my distance, though, because I had no idea if he was returning or not. Then another guy came over to chat with her. But this was a friend or some other skating acquaintance, I believe, because the guy’s wife came a couple minutes later and began chatting with her, too. The boys were a little rambunctious with the toys, and I eventually migrated over to speak to my son, and the woman and I exchanged a few words about the boys. I really didn’t press the conversation at that point, and for the next several minutes I just watched my daughter skating, looking back at the boys, and wandering back and forth, several feet away and then back a bit closer. As the boys continued to make a racket with the toys on the metal bleachers, I moved over next to them, now a few feet from her. She initiated the conversation, and from there for the last 10 minutes of the session we chatted. Just commenting on the warm weather today, and then we got to talking about work and our commutes. After a brief pause, she initiated again, asking me about how long my commute is during the morning. So, that was the extent of our conversation. We rounded up our boys at the end of the session and the 4 of us walked back to the lobby. The girls were already sitting down taking their skates off, and as luck would have it, they were right at the same table. And the husband made his return appearance at the table, as well. The woman was right next to me as we assisted the girls. I kept to myself, though. And this time, there was no extended time buying snacks and letting the kids hang out at the arcade. They rounded up their kids, and I rounded mine. And we exited the arena. And that was it.

So, I think I managed the evening about as well as I could have hoped for. The appearance of the husband really threw me back, but I thought that I gave them their adequate space. And I was just really happy to get in 10 minutes of chat with her.

Anyway, thanks for allowing me to get this off my chest. I can sleep a little better now……..

[**Sapphire**]

I'm glad that you are able to come here & write down your thoughts so that you can feel better.

I have a question though, why didn't you ask if the man was her huband? If you 2 are slowly becoming friends/friendly I wouldn't think it would hurt to ask that question. Then again I always ask questions...LOL...I guess I'm a nosey body! :D

[kayjay]

You know what, Sapphire? It honestly does help me to feel better. I am also glad to be receiving some "constructive" advice from the likes of yourself and AussieCoffee and Lisa. I know this is a somewhat dangerous and delicate situation that I've found my way into, but it is what it is. I'm dealing with it and seeking advice and guidance, and I appreciate all the positive feedback here thus far. I had such a knot in my stomach for the last couple days, ever since I saw her mood and status change. And all day yesterday, while I was soooo looking forward to seeing and chatting with her again, I felt so nervous, as if I was going to ask her out on a date.

Sapphire, you commented the other day: "I think you do need to focus your attention on other people, go out with friends talk to other people, try your best to get her off your mind."

Yeah, I agree with you for the most part. While I don't want to get this woman out of my mind, especially when I know that I'll be seeing her once a week, I do need to try to tuck her in the back of my mind and get focused on other things and other people. I have definitely been thinking about that over the past couple weeks. I need to get through the other six days of the week without obsessing over this situation. I'm keeping myself very busy with my kids on the weekends, and trying to engage my co-worker clique some more to have some laughs and get my mind off it. But I fully admit that right there, off-stage left of the forefront of my mind, I am counting the days until the next time I will see her.

Now, as for why I did not ask her if the guy was her husband? Well, as stated, that was such an unexpected turn of events. The negative mood and status change was one thing. I was going to the rink with every intention of just continuing our friendly conversation. But the appearance of the husband took me by surprise, and I felt that I had to be extra cautious; also not knowing if the husband was just going to the snack bar or restroonin the lobby and going to return in a couple minutes. At least I did get to talk to her, and you know, she smiled alot. And the couple times where she broke the brief silence and continued the conversation, I feel like that is a sign that she is becoming more comfortable with me. I was disappointed in how the night ended. While we did walk together back towards the rink lobby at the end of the skating lessons, and she was ahead of me and held the door for me, as soon as we got to assisting the girls with their skates, right next to each other, again, it was the re-appearance of the husband there that prevented me from continuing the conversation and saying goodbye. If the husband was not there, then we would have hung out for 10 more minutes chatting. Now, if she's there next week by herself again, do I ask her if that was her husband making a cameo appearance at the skating lessons? I don't know. Based on what I've learned through all our conversations to date, I can think of a couple of ways to bring it up, in ways that don't make it look like I'm digging for information. I thought long and hard last night about a way in which I could email her again, because I felt like the night got cut so abruptly. Trying to think of something to comment on or ask her that might be a legitimate or acceptable reason for reaching back out to her via email (or asking if she has a facebook or myspace account) without coming across as too forward or invasive with her. Maybe I should save it for next week. Still sticking to the plan of just being a friend, though.

[kayjay]

OK, well, I'm really struggling here. I still don't feel comfortable reaching out to this woman via her myspace, but I'm dying to just give her another friendly "hello" via email. Now, let me just say, my only real intention here is just to let her know that I'm coming across in an amicable fashion. I think that I've come up with a very innocent and nice gesture to send to her. With the Presidents Day holiday coming up this long weekend, and most everybody being off for the holiday, I was thinking that I'd maybe drop her an email, letting her know that I'm planning to take my son to the local ChuckECheese place, and if they have no plans, then maybe she'd like to bring her son along and join us. That's seems rather innocent and unassuming, doesn't it? And again, I wouldn't even care if she said "yes, we'll go" or "no, we can't", I'm only hoping to get a response out of her, just to know that she acknowledges my friendly gesture? Or should I not even bother and just wait until I see her again next Wednesday?

[kayjay]

well..........I rolled the dice, emailed her at work, invited her to take her son and join us at ChuckE.Cheese's, and got a response within 10 minutes. I can summarize her answer in two words.......GREAT IDEA! Wow! I'm stunned! I can't believe it. Not so much that she said she'd like to go, and she'll definitely get back to me over the weekend, but everything that she said in her response, how she said it, the Elaine Benes overuse of the exclamation points , she was gushing with excitement! She said that she was actually thinking of going there on the holiday because the kids got a gift card for the place at XMAS. So, I'm expecting to hear fom her over the weekend. She just needs to iron out everyone's plans, and then she'll let me know. Wow! Well, I'll still be sticking to the vest and just playing it out as friends getting their kids together, but I think we just bypassed the stairs and took the elevator to a much higher friendship level. Even if it falls through, and she can't make it, I'm feeling so much better. The doors of friendly communication appear to be wide open.

[aussiecoffee007]

well that sounds good and it sounds like your friendship is progressing along, but really be careful she is married still... and until you know something will be done about that, i would steer clear of the relationship things and the flirting and the progression of the emotional relationship... but sounds very positive and that she likes you too in a friendly way.

[Qupid]

Ouch! Taking interest in a married woman will most likely result in tremendous disappointment for you. She cannot legitimately reciprocate your feelings, and even if she chose to, that's a marriage you're talking about. Even assuming that her marriage would eventually end, she will most likely need a few years to get over it. You're better off pursuing a relationship with someone who's in the position to return your interest and possibly enter into a committed relationship with you later on.

Also, when you revealed that you were, in effect, stalking her online, it's almost guaranteed that she immediately realized how interested you are in her. You have most likely placed yourself firmly in the friend zone.

A big mistake that men make (and I know, because I am one) is that we overestimate the interest that women have in us. A good practice is to take that perceived level of interest and then shear quite a bit off of it. Men are typically 100% interested in a woman the moment she appears. With women, on the other hand, you're lucky if you're sitting at the 65% point. Just so you don't suffer too much unnecessary disappointment, don't make a big deal out of her exclamation points. If she goes on the date with you, then that's something to be excited about.

[kayjay]

Qupid.......I know, I know, I know. Everything you said is true. I'm just going to take it one step at a time. No wild expectations. Nice n easy, and see what happens. My ONLY goal right now is to step up our friendship level from mere acquaintences to being friends that I can communicate with.

[aussiecoffee007]

that sounds good, friendship is good just make sure you keep it on an even level where you dont flirt and all that... the married woman is very dangerous indeed

[kayjay]

Okay, time for another update. And as I've been throughout, I'll be overly detailed and brutally honest with my thoughts and emotions. I sure typed a lot here, considering mot much happened. Sorry about that. Getting it out helps emotionally. Hoping to hear back from my genuinely supportive advisors: Sapphire, AussieCoffee and Lisa843.

So, the plan was for us to hook up today at ChuckE.Cheese's with our boys. Her confirmation email Sunday evening just mentioned that "We are going to take [her son] tomorrow around 12:30pm. Hope to see [my son] tomorrow!" Two things of note here that are serving to keep my emotions in check on this risky topic: First, while both of her email responses to me have been really positive and worded very friendly, neither of them greeted me by name at the beginning of the message, and there was no sign-off at the end of the message with her name. And second, she phrased the confirmation email as "we", which may be implying her and her husband, or her and her daughter, or whatever. So I drove to the place with the expectation that her husband would be there.

Ok, so I get there, and it hit me right away when I walked in the door that this was no place that would permit casual conversation. Her son found my son within a couple minutes of us entering, and I turned and saw her next to the husband, and I instantly said Hi to him, introduced myself, he introduced himself, and we shook hands. That was normal. But I couldn't even utter her name. Not on purpose, but it's just how my mind permitted it to go. I looked at her and just gave the casual "hi, how's it going?" From there, we just basically followed the kids from game area to game area. Much of the time, they were watching their son playing a game over there, while I was busy watching my son play a game over here. There were a few occasions where they were playing the same game or activity together, and the 3 parents just stood around and supervised. There were a couple of quick exchanges between me and her and me and the husband. Just observational stuff about the place. As you can imagine in a loud and busy place like that, with little kids running everywhere, including ours, there just was zero opportunity for anything more. After an hour or so, I was over watching my son on a game, while they found their way over to cash in tix for cheap crap toys. I knew they would be getting ready to leave. Their son came by on their way out to say goodbye to my son, and the husband approached me and said they had had their fun for the day, and we all said goodbye. So, nothing bad happened, by any means. I guess I was just banking too strongly that she'd show up alone without the husband, and we'd get to talk a bit. Again, I know that I had no right to expect more, but after they left, my emotions kicked it up a notch. Lots of scenarios going thru my mind about how this get-together ended up playing out. Did she want to come alone, but her husband was going to be home and available AND willing to go with her, so she had to bring him? Or did they have a quick mending of the heart over Valentine's Day and she wanted him to come? (Her myspace mood status did change to romantic on 2/14, and the negative billboard message had changed, as well; the billboard statement was worded like she was just spending time with her kids, or spending time with her husband and her kids; I'll omit the cute phrase - I also had a selfish thought that Valentine's Day came at an inopportune time). Or was there some other scenario by which he wound up coming with her? Anyway, even though in the grand scheme of it all I wanted to just become a bit more personal friends for now, with the build-up of the email offer and acceptance, and the subsequent way that the get-together played out today, the prevalent thought that took over my feelings was that I somehow got what I deserved. I couldn't wait to get home and get outside and do something else and just get thru the rest of the afternoon and evening. Did I read too much into her initial email reply and think that we just raised the friendship level? Today didn't feel like it, but then again, the circumstances didn't really permit it. I know that I'm torturing myself with all of the over-analysis, maybe making a bigger deal over the day than I need to. Anyway, I got home, got busy with my son and the neighbors and their kids, and chatting with my neighbors about other stuff that alleviated my mind for awhile. Of course, my down spirits are also buoyed by the fact that skating lessons are now just two days away. I'll see her again in two days, and if the husband is not there, then I'm willing to bet that we'll go back to our normal routine of friendly conversation. If he is there, then who knows. I'll end it here for now and provide an update after that.

[**Sapphire**]

Sounds to me like things could very well be OK between the husband & wife. As you said it's hard to talk in a place like Chuck E Cheese so that wouldn't have been a good place to talk to her or even the husband.

Maybe she is just being friendly because she knows your son's play together & skate together. I would try hard not to over analyze everything because it's only going to drive you crazy.

Continue to try to strike up a friendship with her, she may want to be friends or she may want to keep things the way they are which is just on "friendly terms" when you both are together for skate meets. Only time will tell on that though.

[kayjay]

UGH!!! More twists and turns in my saga......

So the get-together at ChuckE.Cheese's did play out like I hoped. Alright. I'll see her again in two days at skating, and we'll jump right back into conversation. WRONG! She was not there last night. WORSE! The husband was. I say worse because I obviously don't want to get into a familiar relationship with HIM. Anyway, our boys were playing again, and I had just introduced myself to him at Chucky's 2 days ago, so I found it hard to totally avoid him altogether. We had a few brief exchanges about the boys playing, and how they came to agreement on his son's name (odd spelling and pronunciation). This was his first time coming to skating alone without her, so I just asked about her absence and he said she was sick at home with a cold. I mentioned nothing more about her. A couple more pleasantries. And then skating was over. So, I'm feeling like things are going progressively in the wrong direction for me. I managed to get thru last night okay. The anxiety and nervous feeling in my stomach seemed to totally leave me again, just like last Friday when I got that great email from her, except I was on a low, as opposed to a high. Well, two things happened today. First, her mood status changed again this morning. Long gone is the romantic mood from Valentine's weekend. It's back down to depressed. And her billboard mentions that she's at work and not feeling well. Again, we'can't be 100% certain that's it's a relationship issue she's suffering from, but she seems like a terrific person to me, and I really feel for her. I just can't tell her that because I refuse to send her a friend request at this time. And now for the second thing that happened today. Uncertain about the future of seeing her again at the skating rink (next week is the last week for this session and I don't know if her daughter will be participating in the next 8 week session because she's at the top level and may move on to a more advanced skating curriculum at the rink on a different day and time), I opted to email her again this morning. I had some legitimate stuff to say to her in friendly conversation. Thanked her for hooking up with us on Monday; how my son had a great time with hers; told her that I heard she was sick and that I hope it's not the flu, and that she feels better soon; and asked if she's got her daughter enrolled in the next session or plans to put her son in skating; and that I'd like to keep in touch going forward. That was it. I felt good after sending the email. But I have yet to get a reply. Maybe she was busy at work, and not feeling well, maybe she didn't have the time or energy to reply. It could be argued that by emailing her today, I may have bit off more than I can chew (so to speak). Possible. But I was very unassuming and totally genuine in what I wrote and how I worded it. I hope that maybe I lifted her down spirits a bit. She's left for the day, so we'll see if I hear from her tomorrow. Again, thanks for letting me pen this out here. The sh**** feeling in my stomach has subsided again.

[**Sapphire**]

Sorry to read that you didn't get to see her on skate day.

I have to wonder if things are OK in her marriage, but the reasons she changes her mood is because of other factors in her life, work. kids, other kinds of stressors, not specifically husband/marriage related. :dontknow:

[aussiecoffee007]

yeah i agree, there might be a variety of reasons that would make her upset or different, lots of thigns happen in every day life, and i thikn you might be reading into it being the husband because you want it to be, not because it necessarily is?

[kayjay]

OK, here's the latest........so she was "depressed" and at work sick as of last Thursday. No updates all weekend. She logged into her myspace yesterday, but no updates. Today, she just logged in, and her mood is still "depressed", but now the yellow sad smiley icon is a blue sad smiley icon, and the billboard message says she "is broke". Now, without trying to focus on specific meanings of moods and icons and what an individual is feeling when selecting such expressions to display for the world to see, I do realize that being depressed and broke may allude to her problems being strictly financial, but the lonely and frustrated moods, and the short Valentine's romantic mood (accompanied by a message referencing her two kids), FOLLOWED by the depressed mood and being broke, and everything I have learned and observed from her, in my honest opinion is indicating marital and financial issues. I want to let her know sooooo badly that I feel for her and I'd like to offer her any kind of emotional support that she needs right now, be it somebody else to talk to or just getting the boys together again so that she can just get away from that house and get the sh!t off her chest( I assume she has close girlfriends that have friend access to her myspace and she talks to them - otherwise, who would she be publishing these feelings to?). But I won't push it there just yet. Tomorrow is skating day again, and I'll just have to sit tight and see who comes to skating lessons tomorrow (by herself, I hope) and play it by ear........very carefully....I know!

[kayjay]

I'm not going to do this right here and now, but I'm just thinking out loud and contemplating.......at some point, I might cave and let her in on some truths, specifically that I came across her myspace several weeks ago when I was trying to find out her first name online; and that I have been aware of her myspace moods and messages, but properly chose not to call her out on it because it was her personal business, and we weren't close enough for me to get involved; but that I think of her as a friend on a certain level, and it really hurts to know that she is hurting, and that I want to extend that emotional support that she may need, in any small way, just to give her a lift. Am I definitely treading in the wrong waters, or is there a good chance that she will feel good knowing that I thought enough of her to extend such care and support?

[**Sapphire**]

You could try to slip in that you have found her Myspace & as a budding friend if she ever needs to talk, she can always email you or talk to you on skate days.

I think letting her know that you have found her Myspace is a good idea. I don't have a Myspace account, but I would think it's pretty easy to find people if you wanted to there so I would think she wouldn't freak out or anything.

Then again you have to take in to consideration that it's an online web page & she could be changing her moods for attention or "just because". You just never know, BUT if you break the ice & let her know you've found her on Myspace she may open up to you & you could know for sure what all those moods have been meaning since you've been checking it.

[kayjay]

Hey, what a pleaseant surprise! Guess who just replied to my email from last Thursday? My "friend". She's back to health. And she commented back to me on everything that I had mentioned in my email to her last Thursday. Her son is sick now, though, so she said she likely won't be at skating tonight, but mentioned that her daughter is enrolled for the next 8-week session, so she said she'll be there next week. Very nice.

[**Sapphire**]

Good, see she was sick so that was probably the reason for her moods on her Myspace page. I hope she & her son gets better soon.

8 more weeks of getting to know her as a friend...nice.

[kayjay]

So, she replied to me yesterday, and then we proceeded to trade another couple emails. Lots of pleasantries. Her son wants to have his b-day party back at Chucky's, and he wants to invite my son. And she went on at length about her daughter and son and their plans going forward with the skating program. She mentioned her daughter's grandmother would be taking her to skating last night, so that just affirmed what I surmised, that the older woman was the mother of the first guy in her life, whom they had a daughter with.

So I replied to say that I was glad tht she's recouped, but sorry for her son being sick now. I talked about the skating, too, and suggested she might brin her son to public skating with my son first to see if he's gonna like it, prior to her shelling out the dough for an 8-week session. She had alluded that money was a little tight right now (going back to her myspace message?)I offered that I'd keep an eye on them out on the ice. She agreed that that might be a good idea, but not this weekend, since he's sick. I also mentioned how I've been taking my kids skiing the past 3-4 weeks, and I slipped in a quick "You ski?" To which she said, no, I can't ski, never tried, but don't think it would go well, I'm such a klutz! HAHAHA!!! Nice response! I like it. Open and funny. Something to pick up on next time I see her.

I ended the email chat saying that I'd let her get back to work now, and if it is okay for me to email her at work, or if she'd prefer otherwise. And I said that she has my email addresses, and to feel free to contact me if she needs anything or just wants to chat. Catch up with you next week, and enjoy the rest of your week/end. In her response, she did not mention anything about these two items, which isn't necessarily bad, because she didn't tell me NOT to contact her. So I feel like the email communication is okay right now. And she reciprocated the well wishes for the rest of the week/end.

So, I feel good about all of that. I haven't seen her in 1.5 weeks (at ChuckE.Cheese's) and haven't had that face to face conversation for 2 weeks since we were last speaking at skating. And I'll have to wait 6 more days until next Wednesday. But at least all of those anxiety pains are pretty much gone, because I feel that we are making some progress on the friendship meter. But the hurdle of the myspace moods and messages is still out there, and I'm determined to bring it up, hopefully sooner rather than later. Just need to figure out the proper time and place and approach. I don't know if revealing it thru email is the best way. I might not get a response, and then I'll be left wondering. I'd like to bring it up in person in order to fully and openly explain my concern for her and allow for some back and forth, and to apologize if needed. But at the same time, I wouldn't want to potentially cause her to be upset in a public setting such as the skating rink. And asking her to meet me during her lunch hour or on her way home from work because there's something I need to discuss with her doesn't sound like a viable approach whatsoever. That would come across as too secretive and wrong on many levels right now. Gotta think this one out right. Feedback, ladies? Thanks much......

[kayjay]

sorry for the double post.......got a server/browser error window trying to post the first time, and trying to clear it up, my message wound up posting twice.

[**Sapphire**]

No problem I deleted the double post for you kayjay. :)

It might be best to bring up the Myspace when you see her next. Since you won't see her for a little bit, that will give you some time to think up a way on how to bring it up & talk to her about it.

[kayjay]

I haven't updated my thread here in awhile. I've spoken to a couple of you thru private messages. Well, I'll summarize and update here what's transpired in the past 3 weeks.

After those nice emails the woman and I exchanged 3 weeks ago yesterday, I went out on a limb (way out on a limb in retrospect!) and emailed her two days later about her myspace account. I tried to present the topic of her down and out myspace moods and status messages in a kind and considerate way. I started the email by telling her that I discuss this with her with all the best intentions towards her, and I apologize if I am out of line or if I misinterpreted anything and this makes you feel bad rather than good. I then tried to characterize our level of friendship as one of acquaintance over the past year that has been slowly growing thru our conversations at the arena, particularly since last December. We had gotten the boys together at ChuckECheese's last month, and we then had those nice email exchanges. In certain words, I expressed that I felt like we had begun to strike up a friendship outside of the atmosphere of the skating lessons, and that was all great. I used that as the table setter to the revelation of my knowledge of her myspace moods. I mentioned that I was aware of all of her down and out moods and status messages, and that I had a certain level of concern for her, but I felt uncomfortable trying to reach out to her via her private myspace. And as her moods and messages changed and stayed negative, I had a growing concern for her. But I didn't think the sakting rink would be an appropriate place to bring up this topic with her. She may feel totally uncomfortable with that. And that's why I opted to email her. I didn't want to keep it to myself any longer, and I wanted to extend an offer of support to her, if she needed it. I said all of these things to her in the email. At first, I thought I worded it very candidly and honestly, showing respect and care and concern for her. But I got too wrapped up in what I was saying, and I added a bit more to the email. Some of it was just more of the same, but in different words. But other stuff I added, certain specific details, I really should have omitted. Nothing blatantly bad! But I mentioned each of her moods and status messages. I mentioned that she told me before about her daughter having a different dad who was out of the picture, and that I hated to think that she might be in another troubled relationship. And I said that I was in a rocky marriage for x years, so I can relate. I should have SHUT MY MOUTH with regards to all of that. I continued by telling her that I felt for her, whatever she might be going thru, and offered her my support, anything that I can do for her, on whatever level. Again, apolgizing if she's upset with me for bringing this up, or anything that I've said here in the email, or if I misinterpreted the source of her pain. Whatever I can do to help her out and give her an emotional lift. Let's get together to discuss, or we can keep this in email. And I concluded saying I hope this doesn't damage our friendship, and that I won't mention it when I see her again at skating lessons. I'll leave it up to her to discuss this furthat, and that I'd stick to just positive conversation when I see her at the arena, which I hope she'll still be receptive to.

I felt pretty good when I hit the SEND button. But a couple days later, with no email response from her, I re-read and re-read what I said to her, and I realized that I said waaay too much, and a lot of stuff I just shouldn't have said at all. I tried to come across and friendly and concerned for her, but I really think I just totally p!$$ed her off by bringing it up. But I wasn't certain because she did not come to skating lessons for the next two Wednesdays after I sent that email.

Well, she showed up last night for the first time in over a month. She was gone two weeks when she was sick and then her son was sick, and the last two weeks were after I sent the email. Did she want to avoid me, or did she have legitimate reasons for not being there? Had to wait it out until she showed up again, and we'd see what would happen. So, she was there, and the daughter's grandmother was there, and another couple who were friends of hers were there (their girl skates too), all hanging out together in the lobby and then sitting together in the bleachers. My son walked down the aisle first and saw her and asked for her son, and as I caught up I heard her say to my boy that her son wasn't here tonight. I was standing right there in front of her (and the others), but we did not have any eye contact. I told my son he was on his own tonight, and I then proceeded to a spot about 10-15 feet away from her and the little group she was with. I was right in front of where my daughter was skating. And the entire session, there was no eye contact between us. Now, granted, she was with that group of people and engaged in conversation with them the majority of the time. And there were a few moments when they were not talking, but she just had her hands to her face and focused on her daughter out on the ice. There was no opportunity whatsoever for me to go over and say hi. At the end of skating, we walked down the bleachers aisle back towards the lobby. I kept my distance. I didn't want to force anything. Same in the lobby. No real opportunity to speak to her alone. So, I didn't and we left for home. And I felt horrible and sad.

Again now, I'm overanalyzing the entire course of events here. Did she finally show up after a 4 week absence so she could see her daughter skate BUT make certain to be pre-occupied with those folks to totally avoid me? I don't know. There were many occasions in the past when she would be speaking with those friends and I just kept to myself; not wanting to butt in just to say hi. We'll see what happens next week. But I'm really getting the impression that I totally blew it with that email, that I really hurt her feelings bringing it all up, and I may have killed our little friendship and that of the boys. For that, I feel so horrible and upset with myself. I meant well towards her, but I feel like it had the total opposite effect.......

[BristolFan]

Perhaps you should leave other people's lives be who don't ask you for your help/advice/thoughts

In general this is..

Having a friendship with someone is fine but doesn't have to involve butting in and getting involved with things that don't concern you

If she wanted your thoughts or anything she would ask

I would just leave it for a while. Don't bring up ANYTHING personal which doesn't concern you and try and talk to her again about something totally different. If that doesn't work apologize and tell her you won't be doing it again (and DON'T DO IT AGAIN. WITH ANYONE NOT JUST HER)

I have just read bits and bobs of this post on and off.. Not much recently.. But the impression I was getting before was that you were trying to help where help wasn't needed/wanted.

Take a step back, leave her for a while, don't think about these things, occupy yourself with lots of other stuff, and wait and see what happens.. If anything happens..

A friendship is all you could get out of this and I think you need to realise and accept this.. I think you are still wishing to help out, possibly *help* ruin things for her so you can get in yourself.. You may not see it that way, and that may be very harsh, but I think that's what you're doing subconsciously..

[kayjay]

I cannot contest anything you said here, BristolFan.

I will not look to totally avoid her. I plan to do just like you said. Totally focus on other positive conversation, if I am afforded that chance again. I won't try to force any conversation with her if she's occupied with her friends like she was last night. And if she expresses her displeasure with me, then I will certainly apologize for what I have done.

[**Sapphire**]

I would have to agree with what BristolFan said kayjay, it's best at this point to not try to engage her in talking more about her relationship or things she may not feel comfortable enough to talk to you about.

Next time you see her at skate practice, say HI to her even though there might be others around her. See if she responds & chats with you a little bit. If she does, keep things general, ask about her son, things like that.

[kayjay]

Agreed. I will do that next week, assuming that she shows up next week. I gotta get thru today and tomorrow, though. I feel so awful about it right now, thinking I've caused the worst possible situation, that I just want to tell her now how sorry I am for what I said and sticking my nose in her personal business. Fighting the urge to just email her with that. I'd rather just say hi in person and hopefully talk next week, and take whatever she gives me back, than risk a potential end-all by apologizing via email and risk going another few days without a response. Whew! Life can be tough! Thanks for the responses.....

[**Sapphire**]

That sounds fair kayjay.

Honestly like I've told you in private you don't know for sure that those moods were due to anything in particular. Alot of people just change the moods "just because", you know?

She may not even be mad or anything like that at you, she just had other people around her this time that she couldn't chat with you.

I think you should get your mind on something else & not let the thoughts you have in regards to the email get the best of you. The mind can be a big pain sometimes when it comes to things such as your situation kayjay.

[kayjay]

Okay, well, I got to have a quick chat with this woman tonight. Please allow me to briefly set the table on how things unfolded:

First of all, I was feeling really awful about the myspace email I had sent her nearly 4 weeks ago now, and with her subsequent no-show for 2 weeks after, and last week's no conversation or eye contact, and her son no longer coming to the skating lessons, I felt like she read that email and was probably PO'ed with me and trying to avoid me. And so I was determined over the course of this past weekend to just flat out apologize to her, not so much for the crux of the email (which was concern for her negative myspace moods), but for how it came across and all the needless details that I went into. I wanted to apologize to her for sticking my nose into her personal business, and tell her that I should not have ever sent it to her in the first place. That's why I didn't want to just try saying "hi" and gauging her response to read into what she may be thinking. I just felt the need to apologize right off the bat.

The evening began just like last week, though. She showed up, but again, she was hanging/sitting/chatting with the same family/friends posse as last week from start to finish - the married couple friends, the daughter's grandmother, and the daughter's uncle on the grandmother's side? Anyway, again, I felt like the opportunity to speak to her wasn't going to be there, unless I got real bold and asked her for a word right in front of them. Also, my neighbor showed up at the rink with his two boys for hockey practice, which was to follow the skating lessons. So I was in the same place as last week, 10-15 feet away from her, but now talking with my neighbor for most of the time, while she was speaking with her group. Okay, the lessons are ending, and she's walking down towards the lobby. I'm following at my distance, hoping to see if I might grab a chance at her in the lobby. Eh, not really looking good. Again, she's ready to bolt. No more hanging around the lobby afterwards while her kids get something from the snackbar and hit the arcade. She was walking out the door with her posse, and I just saw my hope to speak to her slipping away again. Then, my daughter and my son ask me if they can stay at the rink for the hockey practice. OK, go back out to the bleachers with Mr X (ny neighbor). I'm gonna put your skates in the car. So, I'm now walking out the door towards my car, and they are just a few feet ahead ahead of me, but she didn't really see me. I don't know if the Lord is playing chess games with me from above, but they all walked right past my parked car, and her car happened to be parked right across from mine in the next row. I saw my opportunity was about to present itself at the last possible moment. They all said goodbye to each other, and I saw that she was taking her daughter with her in her car. Just the two of them. That was it. I'm going for broke........

Just as she starts her car, I come up and gently knock on the side of her car and approach her window. She puts her window down. I say the casual "hi, how's things", and she says hi back and is kinda smiling. Probably kinda surprised to see me at her car window, but she certainly didn't appear to be upset. Surprised maybe, but smiling. So I say (and I'm paraphrasing the entire conversation now, but recalling as best I can) um, look, I feel like I owe you a big apology. And she asks why! UGH!! And I say for the email I sent you 4 weeks ago. And she says what email? She says the last email she got from me was the post-ChuckECheeses emails, which were the nice emails we had exchanged back on 2/25. OH, GEEZ!! Now, I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. I'm telling her that I owe her a big apology, and she apparently doesn't know what I'm talking about! I was a bit nervous with my bold approach to confront her in her car, with her daughter in the back seat and all, but I was fully ready to accept any displeasure that she may have had in store for me. The one thing I was never ready for was exactly what happened - her saying she did not get the email. I cannot see how she could NOT have received it. She received my previous 3 emails from my work email address. How could she possibly not receive this one? If it went out undelivered for whatever reason, I would have gotten an undeliverable notice sent back to me. Was she playing dumb about it just to diffuse the situation? Who knows? So I'm in this jam, with my email revelation half outta the bag, I'm standing there at her car, offering an apology, and she's not certain what it's about. I can't just say forget about it and walk away. So I feel that I need to at least clue her in on it, ever so briefly. I don't want to hold her up, with her daughter in the car, and go into detail about it. So I say to her, you did get my email from 2/27 about your myspace account, didn't you? She said she didn't. Now I'm really nervous and at a loss for words. So I stumble my way thru explaining again about "when I found your name by googling your company, and I also came across your myspace account. And I noticed your moods and felt a little concerned about them, and I emailed you about it, and I said a lot of stuff in there that I really shouldn't have, and that I felt like I stuck my nose in your personal business, and I was very sorry for that, and that I hope this won't ruin the little friendship that we've developed." I swear to God, she had that puzzled but smiling look on her face the whole time while I was talking to her. Of course, this entire confrontation at her car happened in all of about 3-4 minutes. So she says that she'll go back and check her email, but doesn't recall getting it at all. I said that maybe it somehow ended up in her junk email bin. At this point, I knew that I'd be wrapping up this conversation in another few seconds, so I got a sense of relief. And the positive reaction on her face also kinda set me at ease. I felt that even if she went back and found the email and was rather PO'ed by it, that she probably would have appreciated the fact that I went way out on a limb to apologize to her. She could clearly see that I was nervous, but sincere about it. So I just ended it by saying in a light-hearted tone, "well, if you go back and find it in your email, do me a favor and read it quickly and delete it." And I think I added "and we'll see if we can get past it", and I said thanks and see you later. And I went back inside the skating rink. And she drove off.

And now I'm back into post-analysis mode spanning the entire past 4 weeks, from when I sent the myspace email, her subsequent 2-week no-show, her son not showing up to play with mine for 5 weeks now, the two straight weeks now that she shows up, but with her family/friends group, and right up thru my confronting her in her car tonight. Did she really get and read the email, but played dumb about it to diffuse any uncomfortable feelings with my approach to her in her car? What to make of her seemingly pleasant demeanor while I was speaking to her? And what happens now? If she was being truthful and somehow missed the myspace email, then what is she thinking now as she drives home? Will she find the email tomorrow when she goes to work? Will she reply back to me? Will she maybe wait until next week? Will she be PO'ed still? Well, I gotta say that I feel a whole lot better about the fact that I at least approached her and offered that apology. I feel like I may have taken some of the sting off of my email, if she goes back and finds it. Even if I don't hear back from her before next week, I feel like I can comfortably say hi to her again the next time I see her. And if she brings up the topic, then I'll be ready to deal with it. If she says that she could not find the email, I'll maybe ask her if she wants me to give her the full rundown, or if she just wants to dismiss it and carry on.

How did I handle it? Thoughts?

[**Sapphire**]

Sounds like you handled it pretty good kayjay.

I do think that your still over analyzing things, your lady friend has a whole lot of stuff to deal with & that's most likely why she's been busy & has had others with her the past 2 weeks. As for her son not skating, maybe he decided he didn't want to do it anymore. Maybe the next time you see her, ask her about her son & why he hasn't been to skating?

Best thing to do kayjay is to continue to keep yourself occupied, try not to over analyze what went on last night.

[kayjay]

The son doesn't skate. Just the daughter. The son has always accompanied his mom to the lessons, and our boys play with toys up and down the bleachers. Well, like I said last night, I feel somewhat better about it right now. I got a big weight off my chest. The unknown is no longer hanging out there. She's aware to a certain degree. And she knows that I am really sorry about it. She might retrieve that email (or she possibly really did read the email) and have some level of animosity about it, but I really feel like I limited the potential negative reaction. I've got a whole bunch of stuff that I can talk to her about, and I will look to try to ease my way back towards that. If she responds to me (email or at the rink) and sort of downplays this incident, then I'll totally avoid it and just carry on with other topics. But I'll also be prepared to handle any negative feelings she may have if she wants to revisit the myspace email. Looking forward to next week.......

[kayjay]

OK, well, I really @&#%ed up this situational event in my life.

This woman responded to my myspace email last night, and I read it this morning. It was
short, but not so sweet. No exclamation points (haha - I know, not so funny now, though),
but she just let me have it. And I know that I got what I deserved.

Recall a week ago today, when I approached this woman in her car after skating lessons so
that I could apologize to her for the email about her myspace account I had sent her 4 weeks
prior, and she responded that she hadn't received the email, and I proceeded to give her the
1 minute version of the email and told her that I was sorry (as stated in my post above from
last week). Well, I'm 99.99% certain that she did in fact receive that email 4 weeks ago,
and she wasn't happy about it.....at all! The two weeks where she was a no-show, followed
by the past two weeks when she was there, but no communication or even eye contact, as she
stuck under the shelter of the daughter's grandmother and the married couple friends, that
all makes sense now. She was livid at me and doing her best to just avoid me altogether.

OK, so what did she say to me in this terse email response last night? Paraphrasing now:

She read the detailed and lengthy email I sent her about her myspace moods and messages, and
she was disturbed. Why would I be checking her myspace account so often? She was creeped
by it. She said I took everything I saw and twisted it into a sick fantasy I must be
having. Her personal life is none of my business. She's not my friend. She was only being
polite to me since our boys enjoyed playing with each other. "That's it. That's all." And
to please not contact her again.

WHACK!! Well, that hurt bad. Really bad! But who am I to complain about my feelings? I
can't really argue about anything she said there. When I began this thread back in early
February I readily admitted my affection for her, but knew that I really could not pursue
that agenda, as we are both married. The advice received from a few kind and supportive
folks on this forum was that I really needed to subdue the affectionate feelings towards
her, and to just continue to strike up casual conversations with her and just try to become
a friend. And I was OK with that. But I really had a tough time getting her out of my
every thoughts. Again, the advice was that it was okay to try to be casually chatty when I
saw her at skating lessons, but that I really needed to focus on other stuff in my life.
Well, I think I was mistakenly believing that I was advancing our friendship level a bit
when I traded a few nice emails with her in mid to late February, and I even orchestrated
that get-together with the boys at ChuckECheeses. And then I really risked it all with that
email about her myspace moods and messages (recall she has a private account, so I was only
able to view her profile page, which had the somber moods and messages). I really let my
emotions and feelings for her get in the way of sensible thinking. I was so wrapped up in
trying to tell her that I cared for her situation, that I totally failed to see the added
distress that it might have caused her.......which it instantly did. I said a lot of stuff
in that email. A lot of needless and stupid stuff! Went into foolish detail about how it's
good to have diferent types of friends. Tried to characterize ours as an acquaintance,
that might be a level or two up the friendship ladder, based on our growing conversations
and emails. Basically tried to earn her trust, I suppose, before I hit her with the
personal details about all of her myspace moods and messages, and my concerns for her, and
my alluding to her possibly being in another troubled relationship, and my offers of
support. I just went on and on with all of this. UGH! A day or so later, I finally began to notice what a huge mistake I made.

And so now it has finally come full circle. She gave me a well deserved slap in the face and told me to get lost. And now I am left here in my sorrow, feeling so sorry for what I have done to this nice woman. I felt a lot better last week when I got the opportunity to apologize to her face to face. But I can certainly understand her perspective and her ultimate reaction. Perhaps this was the best scenario going forward? It'll be pretty tough for awhile to get myself past all of this, but her hard response will hopefully make it a bit easier. I'll probably see her a bunch more times now thru June, when the skating lessons conclude. But I'll obviously just be sticking to myself and just feeling so awful every time I pass her or glance at her from a distance. I can't say enough how sorry I am towards her......

[MickeyDeanEveryone]

Wow, I'm so sorry you had to go through all of that...even though after reading this thread I am not surprised in the slightest by the outcome. At least after everything you can use this as a big lesson learned.
Just a rule of thumb, being secretive and always 'checking' someones myspace without them being your buddy comes off as creepy and is borderline stalker status. Next time you make a female friend, I would just add her casually once we were somewhat close...not only is it less creepy, but you can actually post greetings, comments and funny/cute pictures on their page. If you did that from the start things would probably be much more casual and relaxed right now, and since you two were emailing back and fourth for a while, it probably would have been totally appropriate to add her on myspace.
I don't want to come off as bashing you right now, just trying to give you some good advise that you can use next time so this wont happen again.
And as for the skating lessons, it will be pretty awkward when you see each other, but don't sit alone in a corner depressed! Bring a friend along so you can laugh and have a good time. Good luck, and keep us updated!
-Mickey

[**Sapphire**]

I'm also sorry to read that things have gone the other way kayjay. I do honestly think that this will make things easier though. Now you really can get your mind focused on the other things in your life.

I think Mickey gave you some good advice about the rest of the skate meets, bring a friend or something to do or read while you are there. Something that will take your mind away from her & wanting to glance over there.

Good luck & you know we are all here for you when you need it. :)

[kayjay]

Well, another Wednesday is here. But suddenly, the excitement of the day is no longer there for me. After my woman friend (well, not according to her) sent me that end-all email last Tuesday night, she did not show up for skating lessons last Wednesday. No real surprise there. That Wednesday was tough on me all day long. But since then, I've managed fairly well. I have certainly thought about her and how everything played out multiple times daily, and I've felt bad about it, but the hard cut-off that she gave me made it fairly easy to dismiss it from the forefront of my mind. I'd just think about her and how I screwed up a pretty good thing, realize that I cannot do a damn thing about it. She's PO'ed and doesn't want me to contact her again. And because I like her and have a certain amount of respect for her, especially after what I CAUSED, the urge to do so just isn't there. I certainly don't want to go against her wishes and just irritate her some more, and get myself into some reall hot water. So, I just look to the sky in the direction where she lives, I say I'm so sorry, and then I find myself turning away and moving on to something else. Last Friday, I did take into confidence one of my good neighbors. We went out to shoot pool and have a couple beers, while I explained the entire scenario to him. I wanted to share this ordeal with somebody here in my neighborhood, so that I could lean on somebody for support, so to speak, when I'm at home in the neighborhood. We see/email each other at least a couple times a week. He is one of the neighborhood guys social club, which we play basketball/softball/poker/watch football/drink beers with. He is the greatest guy/neighbor, and he has the right personality and sensitivity and understanding to be the one guy close to home that I can trust to keep it in confidence. It was a good talk.

The only good thing that came out of this for me is that the thought of her is not controlling my every waking/sleeping thought. If I never sent that email, and we were still "friendly" at the skating rink and traded occasional emails, I would still be emotionally wrapped up in it 24/7, like I was for that month and a half in January/February. That period of 6-7 weeks, trying to suppress my affection while trying to strike up the friendship, it was an extreme high and low all at once. I got a real rush out of it, but it was controlling me at work and at home, which was not good. Wednesdays were great, as I looked forward to seeing her again, but the other six days I had that constant ill feeling in my stomach.

Well, again, today is Wednesday. Skating lessons tonight. Maybe she'll be there. Maybe she'll avoid the scene for another week. If she's there, I'll give her the space/privacy that she deserves. I may walk past her on my way to the spot where my daughter skates, but I'll be careful not to purposeful look at her when I pass her by. But from my standing spot, I am certain that I will glance her way while taking in everything going on around the arena, and as my son roams up and down the bleacher aisle.

Maybe sometime down the road, after some time has past, we'll bump into each other and be able to say hi again. But for now, I wish her all the best in her life. She was terrific, and I am sorry that I hurt her like I did.

[kayjay]

my update.......

So she did not show up at skating lessons on 4/1 or 4/8, and last week 4/15 her daughter was absent from skating lessons altogether, so there was nobody there last week. And as I expressed to one of our mods here today, things have been going "okay" for me emotionally since the fallout 3 weeks ago. I still think about her several times daily, but have been able to deal with it and get myself onto other thoughts and things shortly thereafter. Unlike all of February, when this was consuming my life 24/7.

Well, last night she was there. Just her and her married woman friend. Just to keep it short and sweet here, we basically assumed our same spots in the bleachers as the last couple times she was there, about 10-15 feet apart. She knew I was there. She was talking with her friend. I listened to my MP3 and watched my daughter skate. I didn't see her look my way at all, but then again, I was trying to refrain from looking over towards her too much myself. Just occasional glances as I kept an eye on my son. There was a 5 minute stretch where my son was in the lobby and her friend was also in the lobby. We were both alone, and I pondered if I should approach her to offer an explanation and apology again. Recall my abbreviated apology to her at her car was the week BEFORE she responded to end all communication between us. But I wisely resisted that temptation. I even refrained from just walking past her to go check on my son in the lobby. We only walked right past her when the skating lessons were over. I didn't glance at her; just proceeded to the lobby. And we were on opposite sides of the lobby getting our kids ready to leave. While I did take a couple more glances in her direction thru the crowd, that was about it. We never had any eye contact during the lessons, and I basically gave her her space.

But seeing her for the first time since the fallout 3 weeks ago, my emotions got the best of me, and so she's been on my mind all last night and throughout the day today. I knew I'd experience tough days like this.

Anyway, next week is the first week of the last 8-week session of the school year. It will be interesting to see if she has her daughter enrolled for the Wednesday night sessions again. More opportunities to see her again, but of course that will also bring the heartache again. I will just try my hardest to just keep to myself. I hope down the road there's a situation where we'll pass each other and offer a quick hi or a smile. Short of that, though, I wish her nothing but the best. She deserves it.

[kayjay]

Well, she was not at the skating rink last night.

Like I mentioned in my posting from last week, this week (yesterday) is the first week of skating lessons for the Spring 8-week session. They post all of the kids on a list with their skating instructors, and her daughter was not on the list. So it looks like I won't be seeing her at all on Wednesday nights at the skating rink anymore. She may have enrolled her daughter for this session during the Saturday AM classes, or maybe to another weekday afternoon timeslot that is available to the advanced skaters. Whatever. I just scanned that list and took it as another dose of reality. Ultimately, it helps me to try to get past all of this and put it behind me. But the hurt will still linger, and I will not forget about her. Every time I go to that skating rink, and I look around and recall the events of the past 18 months, and the growing interactions we had, and our boys had, I'll just shake my head in disappointment.

Our girls are both in the skating show in early June, but her daughter has rehearsals on 3 Friday nights, while my daughter has rehearsals on 3 Saturday mornings. I will surely see her at the ice rink on the day of the show, but that may be the last........

Well, I hope she is doing well. :sad:

[**Sapphire**]

Well the best part in all this is it will be much easier for you to put everything in the past & not hurt so much anymore.

Yeah it's not what you want, but what else can you do, you know? :dontknow:

[kayjay]

Things have been going so-so for me the past 3 weeks. I last saw her at the skating rink on 4/22, when she came for her daughter's last Wednesday night skating practice. I already mentioned above how I gave her her space that night. And I am now 3 weeks into the Spring skating lessons session, and of course, she no longer has her daughter skating on Wednesdays.

However, there are (how should I phrase it?) lingering reminders that keep her fresh in my mind.

For starters, her married friend, whose young daughter also skates, is still currently enrolled on the Wednesday night sessions. We've exchanged a couple glances while watching the girls skate and passing by the bleachers or in the lobby. I wonder if/how much of the situation that my friend? shared with her. Does this married friend see me now and say to herself, "this is the guy that caused a lot of grief for my girlfriend"? And while my friend? has her daughter performing in the spring skate show next month, and her daughter has show rehearsals on Friday evenings, the married friend's daughter is also performing in the spring skate show, and her daughter has rehearsals on Saturday mornings, along with us. I mentioned waaaay back in my thread that I learned that this married friend was indeed a friend because I overheard them talking about a sleepover for their girls. Well, last weekend the girls must have had a sleepover again because on that Saturday AM (5/9), the first rehearsal for the spring skating show, the married friend was there to watch her daughter rehearse, and she also had her toddler son with her, and she ALSO had my friend?'s daughter with her! That struck a chord with me, as my mind went into overdrive, wondering if my firend? was going to show up at the rink to meet and take her daughter home. It did not happen, but I wound up thinking about her for the rest of the day, wondering how she's doing, if things are going good in her life, if she's put me out of mind or if she's still bothered by my actions. So that was LAST weekend.

Well, we missed the Wednesday skating lessons this past week because my daughter had a ballet rehearsal to attend. But this past weekend brought my friend? right back to the forefront of mind mind again. What happened? I actually passed by her on Friday afternoon on the way home from work! I was running errands, killing some time before I pick up my daughter from her Friday afternoon ballet lessons. Approaching a big intersection with late afternoon rush hour traffic, I was going to take a right, and the traffic going left always backs up, as it is the main road going towards where she lives in town. As I'm nearing the intersection to go right, I'm passing the line of cars that are waiting for the light to go left. And I spotted her SUV. The light turned green, and she started forward just as I passed her by. We both had our windows open, but I did not look directly at her. I did keep an eye on her thru my side view mirror as she turned left, and I wound up going straight thru the intersection. And so, of course I thought about her all Friday evening again. By the time I got home with my daughter from ballet lessons, we came home to several of our neighbors and their kids hanging out on our deck eating and playing. A much needed distraction to get her off my mind. And our Saturday and Sunday were full day agendas, with spring skate show rehearsal and my daughter's b-day party on Saturday, and my daughter's ballet show and neighbor's daughter's 1st communion party on Sunday morning and all afternoon. Nevertheless, the event of seeing/passing by my friend? on Friday afternoon was too overwhelming. Thought about her a lot.

Trying to move on now after this posting. Clearing out my thoughts here in the thread and hoping to move on with the work week. I've got a much anticipated Dr's visit this afternoon to see how my dislocated pinky is doing. And the town meeting resumes tonight at the high school. (shaking my head.......) Hope she's doing well...... :sorry:

[**Sapphire**]

I do hope that you are moving on from this kayjay, I know there are some things that may make you think of her, but it's best that you don't when you are approached with those things.

She made herself clear & as such you may not be able to get her friendship back, sorry to say that & yeah it does suck, but it's best to move on now.

[kayjay]

Well, my saga continues, at least through this weekend anyways.

I saw the married woman at the skating rink again yesterday. It was the dress rehearsal for the spring skate show. Although she didn't have her daughter enrolled on Wednesday night skating anymore (may have changed to a different day and time to avoid me), I knew that I'd likely be seeing her at this rehearsal and the show on Saturday (tomorrow). So, I took my daughter and son yesterday afternoon to the rehearsal. I was naturally looking around for her car or the husband's car. Saw neither. But once inside the rink, I did see the husband and the grandmother. A few moments later, I found myself right next to her at the sign-in table, where they tell you what locker to send your kids to for the rehearsal. She looked great. Without really looking directly at me, she knew I was right there. I honestly just happened to find myself right next to her as I approached the table. I said nothing to her. I wish I had the courage to get in a quick hi, but I didn't, subconsciously out of respect to her wishes. Just announced my last name to the woman at the desk. Later, as the rehearsal was underway, she was out on the bleachers with the husband, the grandmother, her married girlfriend whose daughter also skates, and her son, who my son used to run around with. I walked by them with my son to a point about 20 feet away. I stood against the glass, watching the rehearsal and glancing around to keep tabs on my son as he wandered about the bleachers and up and down the aisle; occasional glances towards her, but there was never any eye contact between us. My son found her son, and they interacted for just a couple minutes. They hadn't seen each other since we hooked up at ChuckECheeses 3+ months ago, so my son was a bit tentative about fully engaging her son in play. And a minute later, I noticed the father scoop up their son and bring him back to their spot in the bleachers. And after the rehearsal ended, back in the lobby, I just gazed at her from a bit of a distance thru the crowd. Just hoping for a chance where me might exchange glances, and I could offer her a smile or something. Anyway, I waited for my daughter to get her popcorn from the snack bar, keeping a distant eye on the woman as her crowd chatted outside the doors. They remained there for a few minutes, and I eventually walked right past them to head towards my car. I reluctantly refrained from even glancing at her as I walked by; not with all of them there. I pulled my car around to the front row and got out to gather my kids (who were running around the grassy area outside) , got out and took off my fleece pullover as she and her family/friends were walking by to head for their cars. And that was it.........off I went home.

And I immediately slipped back into a depressed funk. I was quiet in the car, thinking about her the whole way home. I swear, I was fighting back tears.....for everything! For how it all played out, and how I screwed up the budding friendship all on my own. And the fact that I was heading away from her and back to my own lousy marriage. UGH! It was awful. I really was afraid that my emotions were gonna be seen when I got home. I tried to stay outside the house, playing wiffle ball with the kids and taking them for a bike ride around the neighborhood. Fortunately, my wife went for a walk with a couple of the moms on the street. I really needed to talk to somebody. My friend in the neighborhood, whom I shared all of this event with a few weeks back, was not home. And so I called and left a message for my college roomie friend. Thankfully, he wound up calling me back about 30 minutes later, and we talked about all sorts fo different stuff for 45 minutes. I wanted to spill out the events at the rink, seeing her again, but I was in pretty good spirits talking on the phone for that time, so I left it at that and told my friend I'd email him tomorrow.

This weekend promises to be real tough, though. The skating show is tomorrow. My wife will be in attendance. And she will certainly be there. This just might be the last time I see her for quite some time. Don't know if I'll ever run into her at the skating rink again, unless we see each other at next year's skate show. Of course, I'll never know if I'll come across her path again somewhere else, on the road, at the mall, or whatever. I hope that opportunity does present itself again, though, and I can give her a smile and a hello.

I gotta run now, before I get too emotional. I need to try to make some plans to hook up with a friend tomorrow afternoon/evening. WOW! Just don't know when I'm going to be able to break out of it. And the irrational/emotional side of me doesn't want me to forget about this woman. UGH!

[**Sapphire**]

To be honest kayjay, maybe not being able to see your friend after this last skate is a good thing. That way your emotions won't be in an uproar anymore & you can move on.

[kayjay]

OK, so today (Saturday) was the skate show. And I did see her there, and I did go out of my way to speak to her again, if it was to be the last time or what. Here's how it played out:

The show is at 1pm, and we get there at 12:45; my wife, my son, my daughter and I. The parking lot is jammed, and cars are parked everywhere, including the grass around the lot. I know it's gonna be useless to drive all around the lot, so I just grabbed the first open spot of real estate I could find. And I swear, I can't make any of this up. I pull up onto the grass, we get out, and whose SUV is parked just ahead and to the right of me and 20 feet away but hers. Wow. Again, I felt like the Lord was playing games with me. Testing my limits to see how I would handle things. So, we get inside, and I get my daughter's skates lace dup and off she goes to her locker room. The place is jammed, and 75% of the bleachers are full. We are walking down the aisle, and I of course pick her out of the crowd just on the other side of the midpoint of the bleachers. The front row aisle at center ice goes 2 steps down and 2 steps up to proceed to the other half of the bleachers. It was either sit at the top row far away from her in the first section of bleachers, or go where there was more open space below in the second section of bleachers, closer to where she was sitting. And, naturally, we ended up over there, to a point about 40 feet away from her, and a couple rows higher. But I had a pretty clear sightline to where she was sitting. And again, I' certain she knew exactly where I was, even without us making and direct eye contact. I know she noticed us as we walked down the front row aisle. And she was there with just her son today. No husband or grandmother. The married couple friends were also in attendance, but not sitting with her. My son came across her son, too, and the two of them interacted a bit in the front row aisle, horseplaying a bit back and forth. And I got up a couple times during the course of the show, to go to the snackbar and take my son to the bathroom, so I know she saw me there. We never made any eye contact during the course of the almost 2 hour show, but I certainly glanced her way often, carefully of course, what with my wife sitting right next to me. But she was so pre-occupied with texting messages back and forth with her girlfriend. I wanted to grab every last second of gazing at her, in case it wound up being the last time. More silly details here, but just an observation that seemed to be like another game with the Lord. I noticed, while capturing my daughter's group's routine, that when the 6 skaters broke off to opposite ends of the ice, she was paying attention mostly to my daughter's triplet, even though the other 3 in the group were skating much closer to our end of the ice. I was thinking that she was saying "that's his daughter over there".

So let's proceed to the finale, when they parade all the groups of skaters out for one last line-up. By this time, she had vacated her bleacher seat with her son and stood by those steps at the mid-way of the bleachers. She was just out of view from where we were sitting. Our boys were down there, too, playing with each other some more. I was running out of time, and I figured this might be the last opportunity to confront her, be it for one last time or what. I gave the camera to my wife and had her video the finale parade. Then I went to the far end of the bleachers and all the way back down the locker room hallway to the lobby, and then up the front row aisle. There she was, watching the finale parade by those steps. I just wanted to grab that last opportunity to apologize to her once again for all that I had done. Recall that I did fumble my way to apologizing back at the end of March at her car, but I had not communicated with her at all since she sent me that end all email a few days later. So I went down two steps, and up two steps and tapped her on the shoulder, and I said to her, I don't think I greeted her by name ( I wish I had), but again, I just couldn't get it out of my mouth, and I just said "listen, I just wanted to apologize once again to you......I know that I caused a lot of problems for you, and I'm really sorry.....(she didn't look directly at me as I was talking, but she was not terse with me either. She just said "okay" and nodded her head a couple of times as I was speaking. And I just added that "I don't have any excuses to give you, but I hope that you'll be able to forgive me some day". Not expecting her to actually contact me and extend her forgiveness, but that she'd think about it on her own at some point and say to herself that she forgives me. And I think that I said "thanks" as she nodded her head again for the last time, and then I proceeded back to my spot in the bleachers.

At the very least, I felt really good about that last quick interaction between us. A nice way to settle things, on my part anyways, if I don't see her anymore.

The show ended, and the crowd filed out to the lobby. My wife went back to the lockers with my daughter to help her change. I wandered about the crowd in the lobby, hoping for one last sighting. You KNOW I was going to spot her in the crowd once again. I did. She was making her way thru the crowd with her son and daughter. My wife and daughter were up ahead of me a bit, and I slacked off just enough to be be adjacent to her, without looking directly at her, and then allowed her to get a bit of separation as we approached the doors. She went out first, and we had to turn around, as my daughter forgot something in the locker room. I proceeded outside with my son, and he again began playing with her son on the grass, as she gathered with what I believe were some relatives. Older folks. I don't know who they were. Her parents, or maybe some other family members. They were taking pics of her daughter in her outfit on the grass, and out boys continued to play. I kept my distance 20-30 feet away, just keeping tabs on my son while waiting for my wife and daughter to exit. They took awhile, so the boys kept running around, right down where she was standing. It was like my son was putting on one last stand for me, leaving an impression on her that I was right nearby. My wife came out, he was still running arond, not listening to me as I called him to come, so I told my wife to go to the car while I grab him. After another minute of chasing him down, much closer to her now, just several feet away, but not glancing at her, I finally corral my son, and I tell him to say goodbye to his buddy. I was kneeling down, and her son was right there with us, and I asked him how his birthday was (the birthday party that we likely would have gone to, had I not blown it 2+ months earlier). And then I was off. I was hoping to get one last galnce between us, so I coul djust give her a wave and a "see ya" or "take care". Nope. Then, we got to the car, again right near her car and in clear sight. My wife opted to change his clothes before we left, so that kille denough time for her to reach her car and get her kids in. Again, she knew I was right there. I was sitting in our car with the window down, hoping that she might give one quick glance my way. She just backed out. And I got out to see how we were doing at the back of the car changing my son. I just leaned against my car and watched as she pulled out and drove right by us, again, hoping for that one last glance from her. Nope. She just focused on the road and drove off.

Again, I was happy to get the opportunity to speak to her and apologize that one last time. If that's how it ends, then that's about as well as I could have expected. Only time will tell now to see how I handle this. Still thought about her the rest of the day, but with a bit of a positive air to myself, since I got to speak to her. I know I need to move on, but the other side of me still hopes that I'll bump into her sometime down the road and we can say hi again.

Sigh.............!!! :indifferent::sigh::wow:

[**Sapphire**]

Hopefully now this will be the end of it as you were able to have some closure to be able to say sorry 1 last time.

[MickeyDeanEveryone]

I would say to keep your distance for now on. The fact that you're always around and looking at her is probably creeping her out and definitely not a good way to salvage any sort of friendship any time soon. She's made it pretty clear what she wants since she didn't give you eye contact and minimized her responses to one word answers. Just move on and put the energy that you were putting into this woman into your wife and son. Round 'em up and go on a nice summer vacation somewhere.

[kayjay]

MickeyDean, yeah, I understand the lack of eye contact and the one word answers. Since she emailed me to leave her alone, I pretty much did. Other than those two occasions when I bypassed her while driving last month, I've only seen her at the skating rink three times since the end of March. The last skating lesson (3rd week of April) that she had her daughter registered for the Wednesday evenings, and I gave her her space that night. And the other two occasions were just this past Thursday night, the skate show rehearsal, and Saturday, the performance. And at this point now, looking forward, there are no "scheduled" events at which I might expect to see her again. I'll keep my daughter enrolled in the skating program ( she really likes it now). She wants to do the summer 8-week session. I'll continue to take my kids to occasional public skating sessions. She must have switched her daughter to a different night, though. The only time when I could pretty much guarantee seeing her again is at next year's skate show. So keeping my distance right now going forward is pretty much a given, whether I like it or not.

Again, I truly appreciate all of the feedback and support that I've received here. A really dicey "affair" that I got myself mixed up in, and I thank you all for not just labeling me as a creep.

KayJay

[kayjay]

hmmm, well, I'm not quite over this woman. Here's the thing:

I have tried to focus on my own failing marriage, as I have an active thread going on that topic. Looking to try to proceed down the dreaded road to separation and divorce. So, that naturally keeps this woman not too far from the forefront of my mind, as I can't help but think how much I'd prefer to be with somebody like her.

Anyway, I mentioned last month how I don't know if and when I'll ever run into this woman again, but my daughter is continuing the skating lessons thru the summer session. And last night was the first class. Now, this woman was NOT there, but her daughter is enrolled for the summer session, too. The daughter was there last night, and the folks who were there with her daughter was the grandmother and another guy, whom I now believe is the daughter's dad (recall I learned that she has two kids with different fathers, although she had told me that the daughter's dad was totally out of the picture). Anyway......so both our daughters are again enrolled in the skating program on the same night and time. Over the course of 8 classes, I have to assume that she'll be in attendance for one or some of them. I'll be careful about it, but just wanting to share here in the forum, in this thread of mine, that my situation with this woman will still be active on my mind going thru the summer now, and my emotions are likely going to be fueled all the more due to the negative situation with my own marriage and possible divorce. UGH!!

There is a bit of good news regarding all of this mess that I am facing for the summer, though. So last night being the first class for the summer session, I bumped into our good friend and neighbor at the skating lessons. She signed up her 6 year old daughter for skating lessons, too. She was registered for the 6:10pm sessions, while I am in the 5:20pm sessions. But I talked to her and we're going to see if she can get her daughter switched over to the earlier 5:20pm sessions. That would be good in that I'd have a very good friend and neighbor to hang and chat with at the skating lessons. We have a really good rapport, and our family and hers have become pretty close over the 3+ years since we moved into the neighborhood. They live 3 doors down from us and moved in only 3 months ahead of us. We go out on their boat often, the kids play, and we go to their family parties and they come to ours. Terrific friends, and I have a great deal of respect for her and her husband. A marriage to envy! And she is aware, to a certain degree, of the tough love marriage that I have. So, it would be extremely beneficial if she would be able to get her daughter into the same timeslot as mine, and we'd be chatting every week thru the summer at skating lessons.

Now I'll readily admit it right here and now, I will be on the lookout to see if this married woman comes to any of the summer skating lessons. I'll be eager and nervous all at the same time once again, but I'll try to play it straight and with a bit more reservation. It will be very helpful, though, to have my neighbor there with me to keep my attention.

[kayjay]

Well, she was there last night. Wow! Here we go.......

For the summer skating lessons, the first two classes were scheduled on back to back nights. Just weekly from here on out, though. ANyway, I pulled into the parking lot, backing into my spot. I recognized the daughter's grandmother pulling into the lot and parking across from me. And the married woman pulled right in behind her. She was driving the husband's car, for the firs ttime that I've ever noticed. That right there just made me think, "well, she's driving her husband's car here to skate lessons, so things are probably going okay with her own life and marriage". Anyway, I didn't do anything to stall myself getting out of the car so as to walk across the parking lot near her. I just bolted inside. She saw me, though. I had to look back and stop a couple of times fro my son to catch up, so she definitely saw me. Anyway, I did keep to myself inside the lobby, just occasionally glancing her way. Got my daughter laced up, had to speak to a couple of the skating instructors, and by the time I was all set to go out to the bleachers, she was already out there and seated with the grandmother. I walked by with my son to the same spot I positioned myself inback in the spring....about 25 feet away and on the other side of the steps that divide the bleachers. From there, I got on my cell phone and called a couple of friends, looking around to keep an eye on my son, and just glancing towards her whenever I had to look that way to see my son. At the end of the skating lessons, I began to walk towards her on the way to the lobby. I glanced over to see if she was getting up, and waited a few seconds, but when she remained seated, that's when I opted to proceed. And wouldn't you know it, she and the grandmother were getting up just as I was steps away from her. I stopped for an instant, just to give them the option to go ahead of me, but she sort of did the same. There was no direct eye contact there, and I didn't feel that there was any hostility in the air, but so I proceeded into the lobby. And I then bumped into my neighbor's husband, who was there to take his daughter to the next skating lessons at 6:10pm. We were in the lobby for another 10 minutes or so. She was over with her daughter and the grandmother, and the married couple friends, and I was with my daughter and son and neighbor's kids, maybe 20 feet away. Nothing more happened between us. She was taking her time leaving the rink. I had time to toss the skates in the car and return to talk to my neighbor in the lobby for a bit. She finally left the rink after another 5 minutes.

Anyway, for her own sake, I hope that she feels comfortable enough coming to the rink to watch her daughter, even though she knows that I'll be in attendance through the summer, as well. I will continue to give her her space and just try to let things be.

[kayjay]

Just an update on how things have fared for me over the summer, as it's been 3 months since I last posted on my topic here:

The married woman did come to most of her daughter's Wednesday night skating sessions thru July and August. Nothing happened really. I kept my distance. She sat with the grandmother and married couple and the daughter's dad on different nights. We coincidentally arrived/parked near each other in the parking lot, and were visible to each other coming and going, but I kept my distance. Actually, the last skating session of the summer, she and her posse actually passed right by me as I was sitting in the front row of the bleachers. I was happy for her, as she finally opted to sit right in front of where her daughter was skating, rather than at a distance.

When the fall skating session started, I saw that her daughter was not listed on any of the student/instructor lists, so I figured that they went on a different day/time now. That first night, the skating director notified me that my daughter would have to get moved to the Saturday AM classes, as she had to move her level and those above her (the married woman's daughter) to the Saturday timeslot. So I thought that maybe I would be seeing her again on Saturday AMs now. But after a couple of weeks, noticing that she was not there, and neither was her daughter, so I came to the conclusion that they probably stopped the daughter's skating lessons altogether. I fell into a bit of a depressive state for those couple of weeks, thinking that this event in my life was going to end, whether I liked it or not. I dealt with this issue a bit easier over the course of the summer, even when I was seeing her at the skating rink every Wednesday night. I still thought of her on a daily basis, but the amount of time spent thinking about her declined rather significantly, and it got a bit easier for me to dismiss her thoughts shortly after they came. A couple of lapses here and there, but it was getting better.

But when I had that depressive funk last month after realizing that she and her daughter apparently weren't coming to skating lessons anymore, I checked out all of the other skating lessons timeslots on different days. And I found that she still was at none of them. So I now realize that I will probably not be seeing her at the skating rink anymore. I know that that is a good thing for me from a sensible standpoint. However, with the still uncertain nature of my own marriage going forward, I will continue to have this woman in my thoughts from time to time. I've made some progress in trying to get over her, but more time is needed. I suppose that not seeing her on a regular basis will continue to help in getting over her. Also, she privatized her myspace profile mood and message over the course of the summer, so there's no incentive for me to be checking it out to see what she might be up to or feeling anymore. Again, I realize that that is helpful for me, whether I like it or not.

But I have passed by her on the road a few times while out and about over the past 3 months. Anyway.........trying to get on with life...........